President Milanović: I proposed the establishment of a Council for Foreign Policy, the Prime Minister refused because he has no will for cooperation

On Wednesday, 19 June, the President of the Republic Zoran Milanović gave an interview to Dnevnik, Croatian Radiotelevision’s daily evening television news programme. He commented on the current political situation, discussed his plans for the presidential elections, and the upcoming NATO Summit, and clarified his proposal to the Prime Minister to establish the Council for Foreign Policy. Branko Nađvinski conducted the interview.

We are awaiting the presidential elections, while the European and parliamentary elections are behind us. With the passage of time, have you come to a clear conclusion as to why the Rivers of Justice did not bring about the changes you wanted? The elections were on Wednesday, and there was a great turnout.

– Are we talking about parliamentary elections? The coordinated effort and obstruction by the nepotistic-party lobby, i.e. the Constitutional Court, played a significant role. If I had been allowed to run, which was forbidden to the SDP under threat, the results would have been different. Everything pointed to it. This is a major difference, and in this regard, the sabotage achieved a specific goal. Life goes on. Nothing in the Croatian Constitution forbids what I did on 15 March of this year. Nowhere does it say that the President of the Republic cannot do that. In fact, several related laws on elections for the European Parliament and on local elections even elaborate on situations where the President of the Republic runs and self-nominates, potentially taking office later.

Many constitutional experts would disagree with you.

– They would disagree.

You said that you were out of your comfort zone. Why haven’t you completely stepped out of your comfort zone, regardless of the outcome?

– Because I’m a stuntman, but I’m not a madman willing to be completely robbed. One thing is taking risks, and another is entering an open conflict and giving those who worked openly to break it with party interests a completely free space. I have been stepping out of my comfort zone for 15 years as a politician and I have never really been in it. I’m always there when it’s necessary to expose myself and even risk everything for some causes. Simply put, let the constitutional experts say what they want; the Constitution says what it says and does not say what some make up. The Constitutional Court has never reacted, nor will it, to the continuous obstruction and deliberate trampling and demolition of constitutional provisions by Plenković, because this is his dictatorship. When it comes to the obligation of cooperation between the Government and the President in shaping and implementing foreign policy, there is an entire correspondence between Mesić and Sanader, two not very good friends, clearly stating how many times Sanader asks for his approval. Therefore, I did not violate the Constitution; I defend and protect it from those who systematically violate it and enjoy support for doing so.

Constitutional experts do not agree with your position.

– Some constitutional experts. I will admit that the concept of a constitutional expert is something different from a gynaecologist, a physicist, or a neurosurgeon.

If you had the chance, would you do such a thing again, or would the SDP agree to such a thing?

– You have to discuss that with the SDP. I can’t answer that for you. In the end, the polls turned out to be quite good; they didn’t miss by much. The day after my announcement, polls showed that my personal rating as Prime Minister was over 30%. Then, after the joint venture, it decreased naturally because people became insecure. For months, polls showed my former party had a rating of 12-13%, and in the end, it got over half a million votes. But that relationship has now ended in such a way. For years, I was extremely restrained in relation to my former party, which I led and transformed, much more restrained than my predecessor, who was the HDZ’s hostess.

Are you now following developments in the SDP? Grbin is gone. Do you want to completely distance yourself from the SDP before the presidential elections?

– That cannot be the topic of this conversation at all. We will talk about the presidential elections when the time comes. Everything in due time.

When will you make a decision? What does that decision depend on?

– It depends on me, but also on the SDP as a party that supported me in my first run, in the victory against Plenković and the HDZ.

Do you expect them to support you again, or would you rather go with some sort of independent team of your own?

– Everything in due time, and I will make the decision on that.

Defeat is evident in the parliamentary elections. Have you perhaps thought about how that defeat will affect the possible outcome of the presidential race?

– No, because it’s a completely different story and a completely different relationship. It is a tough fight, usually in two rounds, like a wrestling match where you have to endure until the end. Presidential elections are not the same as parliamentary elections. In the parliamentary elections, 35% of the people voted for Plenković to remain Prime Minister. Everyone else voted against it. And we don’t have to ask constitutional and legal experts about that. The outcome: Plenković is still Prime Minister. Is it in accordance with the Constitution? It is, because in the end, the winner in the parliamentary elections is not the one who has the most, but the one who has enough. So, the presidential election is a different story. There, you have to carry things on your back, and you need a big and strong organization, and the SDP is that.

So you are counting on them, you will ask for help?

– Everything in due time. To ensure fair elections, you need 14-15 thousand observers and members of election committees. A strong organization can provide that. Therefore, money is not the primary concern. In the last elections, I spent HRK 3.5 million, while the HDZ reported HRK 8 million but visibly spent around HRK 15 million. I received little financial support from the SDP but a lot in terms of organization. And why did all this happen? Because Plenković, in a dictatorial manner, imposed Turudić as state attorney general, the chief jailer of the state if things go that way. This is contrary to all evidence indicating that Turudić should not hold that job. He lied in the Croatian Parliament, showing pathological and rude behaviour. At that moment, I thought to myself, “My God…”

Security checks were carried out on Turudić in 2009, 2014, and 2019. These checks had no effect on the decisions of the State Judicial Council regarding his advancement at the County Court and the High Criminal Court. In 2014, you were the Prime Minister, and Lozančić was the director of SOA. Lozančić is now your adviser. What do you know about these security checks?

– Are you asking this from a position of authority or as a journalist presenting the facts?

No, as a journalist presenting the facts. Are these facts, or am I wrong?

– You are wrong because you missed the key fact that everything essential and eliminative in this case happened in 2015 and 2024, not in 2014. I am not the master of the country; I cannot dismiss a man. When Turudić was with the suspect who was released from pre-trial detention with a bond and an obligation not to leave his house, it is completely irrelevant that they talked and met to congratulate each other on their birthday. At that moment, you are dead, as a judge. You do not exist, probably not even in Russia, let alone in an EU member state. This happened on 24, 25, and 26 August 2015. The investigation was against Mamić, not Turudić. Turudić got caught in that moment. As Prime Minister, I can only wipe my forehead with that and nothing more. I can’t compromise measures; I know that in a few months I won’t be Prime Minister anymore. What is the use of such knowledge in the future? Not to persecute a man and completely destroy him, but to prevent this kind of promotion. This happened in Croatia, and it is terrible.

But those security checks didn’t stop his promotion. Why?

– This also says something about security checks, but that is a secondary topic here. The appointment of Turudić and the insistence on continuing this procedure, despite the information given to Plenković in a timely and clear manner, should never have happened. Plenković waved his hand at that and called Turudić, publicly stating: “Listen, we have something that the President sent me, secretly, for my information so that I can consider my decision.” The President does not take part in decision-making but defends the constitutional order. And you call Turudić and ask him if it’s true.

There are no legal grounds for a security check on a candidate for state attorney. Is that correct? Should Plenković have asked for the check?

– Yes, he should have asked. There is also a legal basis. The knowledge that the Prime Minister had was so significant and persuasive that Plenković should have stopped the proceedings at that moment and chosen a third candidate. It didn’t even have to become public. Plenković tried his best to make it public. Plenković said to me at the meeting when he came to get the signatures, in front of witnesses: “Why didn’t you replace him?” First, I couldn’t. Second, it means that he indeed had to be replaced. You are aware of all that, and you still pushed him to that position with your hands. This speaks about you and your conscience.

Plenković says you didn’t request a security check for Mr. Dobronić when was being appointed at the Supreme Court and that it’s the same thing.

– Should I have requested it? The Parliament, which appoints him, should request it if there were legal grounds. I do not participate in that. I proposed the person, and everything was done according to the law in his appointment. Let’s not confuse matters here. I couldn’t have done anything. I wasn’t allowed to do anything, and even if I could and didn’t do it, that was six years ago. Today, in real time, with real data, I encounter a Prime Minister who feigns ignorance, whom SOA didn’t inform in time. I attribute this to negligence. I warned him in time; the matter is still not before the Parliament, and no decision has been made yet. He tells me, “My commission recommended this to me,” in which his lackeys sit, and “Why didn’t you dismiss him?” So, in fact, he deserves to be dismissed. He’s not suitable, but I don’t care.

Do you expect Turudić might dig up something about you?

– Maybe he’ll dig up something about you? Believe me, my life is so dull for the state attorney, but it’s not for the public. His first moves of that kind show where he comes from.

What will you discuss at the NATO Summit in Washington? Stoltenberg announced changes in the aid delivery model to Ukraine. What will this specifically mean for Croatia?

– It means nothing for Croatia. Stoltenberg doesn’t announce that nor decide on it, nor does the NATO Secretary-General decide on anything. Essentially, they do what the Pentagon tells them, and the Pentagon and Americans are our choice. They are our protectors. There is no shared democracy here. We are a democracy; in some respects, better than America in my opinion, and in some respects, a hundred times worse. More corrupt. But that’s what the Pentagon decided. The US presidential elections are in November. Everything is done in that context, aiming to assist the current President, as everyone does in similar and comparable situations, and that’s how it is. What has been done so far, involving many member states, is now centralized under NATO. NATO directly organizes logistics and shipments for the war in Ukraine. I am against it. I have always supported humanitarian aid and will continue to do so. After two and a half years, it is becoming clear that what I’ve been saying is correct: this war cannot be won this way, and it cannot be won without nuclear escalation. Where does Croatia stand in all this? Nowhere, because the Croatian military is nowhere to be seen. They haven’t been involved so far, and the Parliament rejected participation in the training of Ukrainian soldiers, which the Croatian public massively opposed. Croatian soldiers haven’t thus far participated in this. Will the Government provide humanitarian aid? I encourage it to do so. Whether they will send Croatian weapons or pay the €70 million requested of Croatia in that programme is now their decision. The Croatian military lacks everything, uniforms, boots… Money is being spent on some things that are visible, but we lack 4,000 soldiers in our structure.

Minister Anušić claims that since 2016, after you ceased being Prime Minister, the defense budget has grown by 122%, totalling €1.178 billion. Do you think this is sufficient?

– The data provided needs correction for inflation and procurement adjustments. While there has been growth, it’s important to consider nominal versus real amounts, but that’s a separate discussion.

A month ago, you proposed to Prime Minister Plenković the establishment of a Council for Foreign Policy. What was his response to your proposal? What role would this council play?

– I didn’t publicize the proposal immediately; I awaited the Prime Minister’s response, which came after three weeks. He declined, citing that everything is already covered by the Constitution and existing laws, seeing no need for such a council. For two and a half years, he has obstructed meetings of the National Security and Defense Council, which is unconstitutional. I’ve written to him regarding violations of decisions on ambassadorial appointments, highlighting that as President, I lack the authority and resources to enforce compliance. It’s crucial for Croatia, as the President holds equal authority with the Government in foreign policy matters, to align our stance, especially when Croatia’s vote contradicts the majority in UN resolutions, such as the recent vote on ceasefire in Palestine and Gaza. This decision was made without consulting the President, constituting a breach of the Constitution. Such incidents did not occur during the tenures of Mesić or Sanader, as they understood protocol. This pattern must be prevented. The model is a joint council for conversation. Plenković is used to managing and blackmailing. The initiative is completely clear. So, the moment you see that there is good will on the other side, it is resolved in five minutes. But there is no will. And that will never change, because that would mean that we cooperate in changing the representatives in foreign policy, and he prevents that at all costs, because there are people working there who work according to his dictates.

– Shifting to sports, what are your predictions for the Croatia vs. Albania match?

I anticipate victory because I’m hopeful, though wishes alone don’t secure outcomes. I’ll be attending the match against Italy in Leipzig with my wife, using a state airplane – not a government airplane – marked with “Republic of Croatia.”

Regarding Jandroković’s son, you remarked that the kid should have gone. Does this render the Commission’s actions unnecessary?

– I beg your pardon, what was expected of him? Even if he weren’t a minor, he went to the match with his father. If he went the way some imagined he should go, the plane ticket for insurance, you have a higher cost to begin with. That child is a protected person. He is part of the family of the Speaker of the Parliament, and he is little. I actually didn’t do that because I didn’t, but now I regret that I didn’t.